Pricing Pain Points

We swap wedding week recaps, including heat battles, off road venues, and a surprisingly heated debate about magnet boutonnieres. Then we get honest about wedding florist pricing, from markup and labor to handling pushback and building a healthier culture of trust.
• wedding recap highs and lows from a busy stretch of installs 
• magnet boutonnieres vs pins and why every option has tradeoffs 
• why TikTok rage bait fuels mistrust around floral pricing 
• grocery store flowers vs wholesale costs and luxury stems 
• the “wedding tax” myth and the logistics behind event pricing 
• accepting that some people will complain and pricing anyway 
• how to talk through budget cuts with clients professionally 
• 3.5x markup basics and two ways to build a quote 
• why labor needs its own line item and how percentages work 
• lowering prices responsibly without undercutting the market 
• sample starting prices for bouquets, boutonnieres, and more 
• how we think about candle and decor pricing plus cleanup reality 
Please send us your takeaways or insights that you had. We love when you post on your stories and you tag us.

Transcript

Welcome And Wedding Season Chaos

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, you guys. Welcome back to the Lunch Club podcast. I am so excited yet again. We have been consistent here in our recording, which is a very good feeling in the middle of wedding season. Staying consistent with anything is kind of a miracle in itself.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

So Yeah, it's so funny that we were like, um, you want to know what we should do right now while we're already so busy.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

And you know, as we're heading into our busiest season, let's start a podcast. Um, okay, we're gonna dive right into highs and lows this week, but we're gonna do a little twist. We're actually gonna do a wedding recap because both Johanna and I had busy wedding weeks, and we just thought it'd be kind of fun to share some of the inner dialogue of what went wrong, what went great, and then we have some shout-outs to give. And then today's episode is going to be about pricing, um, transparency, and all the mindsets that go behind that. It's such a vulnerable thing to talk about, and it's such, I think maybe one of the most vulnerable parts about this job is working through the imposter syndrome that comes along with pricing yourself appropriately and basically pricing yourself so that you can stay in business and working through all of that. So we're really excited. So don't go away, stick around. There is lots of juicy good stuff in today's

Johanna’s Wedding Highs And Lows

SPEAKER_00 1:19

episode. So, Johanna, take it away with giving us your wedding recap.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Okay, so it wasn't too too big, it was really pretty inspo, like really wild, organic, um, and just kind of like a fun color palette. I don't know how to describe it. Like you saw, it's like kind of neutrals plus colors. Yeah. It was really pretty. Um, but here were some awesome things about it. I loved doing, I did two really big aisle entrance arrangements. That was really fun. And I got some gorgeous hydrangeas and some really curly allium. That was like so fun to put in there. I loved the bridal bouquet. I thought it was really, really cute.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

It was, it was beautiful. It was like looking at something that you're like, this needs to be on Pinterest, but then you also kind of want to keep it bottled up and be like, but it's special because it's not on Pinterest. Like the gatekeepy, like, ooh, do I want to throw this? Just as like an outsider, I was like, oh, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yeah, you FaceTimed me and I answered and like didn't I didn't say anything. I just like held up the bouquet and you were like, ooh, and I was like, Yes. I was like, ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

It was just like the browns, like floral brown is such a unique word. Like, people are like, What do you mean, brown? And you're like, Well, it's kind of pink, kind of purple, kind of brown. Like, it was a good bouquet. Everyone go go find it.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Um, okay, so some like maybe low points of it. It was so hot, and I got so sunburnt, and I'm so dumb for not just wearing sunscreen. Like, I yes, like sun sunburnt to the point where you kind of like feel sick after you're like, I don't think I'm well. Yeah, that's so dumb. Never good. And then, yeah, because of that, it was like the flowers obviously were dying, and we did everything we could to keep everything looking like happy and perky. Um, but that's just kind of always a hard fight. Uh, the drive to the venue, luckily, we didn't have like a bunch of ickanas or things that were super like delicate because the drive was like three miles of off-roading. And then right before you get to the venue, there's this sign that says, keep going. This is the way. Do not stop on the hill. And I was like, Oh, okay. And then we we come up on this hill. It was so steep. I was having flashbacks to when we were in Greece, like driving up those hills, and it was just like, I'm driving my U-Haul. Christian wasn't with me on this one, and until I'm driving, and I like see the hill, I'm like, all right, and we just gass it up the hill. It was crazy. We were like yelling, so yeah, it was it was like a fun venue. It felt almost like camp, um, like wilderness camp. I don't know, I don't know. It was really pretty, and there were wildflower flowers everywhere. Um, so it was a lot of fun. I'm tired though. I'm getting to that point in the season where I'm exhausted and I think I need a little burnout. Burnouts upon us. Yeah. So it was all together good, pretty, hot, and I'm glad it's over.

Doubleheader Week And Murphy’s Law

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Um, okay, I had a doubleheader weekend, so I had a wedding on Tuesday and a wedding on Saturday, and you know, it probably would have been like amazing all in all, but I had a lot of weird, like Murphy's Law type stuff happening to me where it was just like, can I just have a day of like normalcy? Like, car got broken into fridge got opened and left open, all my food went bad, and like I have a family member who got a cancer diagnosis, and like there were so many other things that happened. I just your AC in the cool. Oh yeah, the trailer, like, I hadn't cleaned the air filter, and so like half I went out like halfway through it was probably like 4 p.m., maybe even six, and I went to the trailer to get a bouquet out that I was setting out for someone, and the trailer was 90 degrees, and I was like, Oh my gosh, how long has everything been in here at 90 degrees? And yeah, it was just like oh my goodness. So that was just like the damper of like it was just really hard to enjoy any part of the week, just feeling like I just have to survive this, like I just have to get through it, which is funny. I feel like that's been me all season, has just been like, oh my gosh, I just need to survive. But Tuesday's wedding highs were it was really, really pretty and really, really fun. I didn't learn until I got there that it was actually a referral client, meaning like it was a client that booked me because a past client had recommended me. So once I got to like the temple drop off, I saw a past client's mom and dad, and I was like, oh my gosh, like, and then I put two and two together. It's like their cousin, and so I was really grateful for that, and like they were just so nice. Um, and obviously it's good to know, like, oh, I did do a good job because you know they recommended me. Yes. Um, and then we also showed up 30 minutes earlier than we're supposed to get into the venue. It was supposed to be an hour and a half setup, which we were doing a chandelier and pedestal pieces and a partial arch, so and tables. So it was gonna be like a really tall task. Um, but we made it happen and got there 30 minutes early, and the venue girl was nice. It's always a risk. You never know if they're gonna be worried about it or if they're pleasant. But I always just kind of play down, and I'm just like, hey, I'm here, and just like don't even and they're like, okay. So that went great, and then it was an early send-off. LDS weddings are kind of the best because like they went home at 8 15. They're like, bye. You literally, I was like, thank the heavens, I'm so done. It was hot, but it wasn't it wasn't as bad as it's been here. It's been like in the 90s, and for August, I feel like that's still just going really strong. So that was Tuesday's wedding.

The Magnet Boutonniere Debate

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Um, my other thing I have to share the story about the photographer. Oh, MJ. So I made some magnet boutine ears. I always do magnet bouton ears. I have not done pin-on bouton ears for years because no one wants that. Like, it's just such a hassle. So I get a text. The photographer was 25 minutes late to Temple. So like he got there just in the nick of time. Like, was it fine? Yeah, but was I a little stressed? Definitely. Um, then he texts me like an hour before we get to the reception, and he's like, Hey, can you bring some magnets?

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Because like I the text was so he was like, it was like this Hey, can you bring some pins?

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Because these magnets you're using. I need to read the text. It was pretty rude. I'm sorry if he's listening. You were nice until you sent this text, and after that, everything went downhill, bro. He said, Thanks for your help. It's also a man, and I hate be Cody hates it when he's like, Don't make this a man thing. I don't like listen.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

It's always a man thing with me.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

I'm sorry, but it was. Can you please have some straight pins ready for this this eve for the men's bouton ears? They were constantly getting knocked off and falling during the photos. Magnets were the absolute worst invention for bouton ears. Great idea, but horrible in practice. So true. I'm like okay. Like you could have stopped at can you please bring pins? I'd be like, Great. Okay. Why don't you just? So I was just like, wow, that's so weird. Like, I've never had that happen. I move on. That's it. I say yes, I'll bring them. Then he goes, I've been doing weddings full time for 20 years. No joke. And I dread every and all time I see magnets. Luckily, yours are longer, so they don't rotate and flip upside down like single magnets or get lost in the grass as easily, but get knocked off just as easily. I guarantee it happens all the time. But most photographers don't speak up because they don't want to ruffle any feathers. I'm like, he's like, but don't worry explaining how floristry works to me. Gross. I was really rude. I said, well, I'm usually the wedding, I'm usually at the wedding because I'm the florist and the planner, but thanks. See you in a bit. That's all I said. He did not look at me in the eyes for the rest of the event. Like, literally avoided me. Was so dramatic about it. I was just like, all right, you suck.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

It's so funny because, like, okay, this is what I hear every time I whip out a bouton ear that has a magnet. Okay, this is what I hear. Quote. Right. Oh my God, that's so cool. Whoa, it's a magnet. Wow, this is so much better than a pin. Oh my, this is amazing. Thanks for using these. They're like, everybody's so excited that you're using a magnet. And literally at this last wedding, I was putting it on and I used a magnet. And the photographer was like, oh, we love a magnet boon here. And I was like, oh, that's so funny you say that. Because it has been quite the talk recently. Because I posted on my stories after that. I posted on my stories to try and get feedback. And I will say, I did hear from like maybe two people that the magnets can be frustrating, they can fall off. But there were a lot of other people that said that they like the magnets. And I think no matter what, you're gonna have issues with sticking flowers on somebody's thing. Yeah. Like for sure. Because everybody also sticks themselves with pins. Or I laughed when he said they turn. Because I'm like, no, that happens with pins all the time. Like I see the boot nears like sideways. One part. Yeah. It's stupid.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

So, anyways, that was like my it was just a real I had to share the story. Second wedding was honestly fine, but it was so hot that the candles melted, and that sucked. That was it was pretty, it was cute, comical and kind of glad it's over. It was just was like this week needs to end. So that's our tea. That's our tea for

Listener Shout Outs And Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 10:41

the day. We're gonna give some shout-outs to people who said very nice things about our podcast this week. And just know that when you send us messages, it literally makes our day.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah, like Hannah, we start us up. Yes, we like send it to each other, and I'm like, oh, look at this. Like, this is so fun. So, I mean, always tell me I'm pretty. Right? Okay, uh, so we have Rachel who tagged us when she was in the car um listening, and she just said, listening to Lunch Club Podcast, it's getting me through back to school shopping, which was so cute. And then Nicole said, Okay, I love this week's podcast episode, especially hearing your mantras so applicable to just life in general, even for someone like me who doesn't own a business. Loved Andrea's advice, I'll be okay, instead of the framework that nothing bad will happen. And it's not that serious was what I needed to hear this week, too. Such a good episode.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Cute. We were honored, truly, because this wouldn't be as fun if it was just us talking to each other, but we'd still do it anyways. Um, we got one more, and it's always fun when it's like a total stranger or someone that's like not obligated, I feel like, yes, to be listening. Um, this is from someone named Sarah. She said, Hi, I just discovered your podcast with Johanna, and I love it. Thank you for sharing such wonderful conversations. And I said, Oh, Angie, thank you. So cute. Makes me a little emotional. So thank you guys for listening. And as always, just tell us what your insights were, tell us what your takeaways were. We love to hear it. So now let's get into the nitty-gritty.

Why Floral Pricing Feels So Loaded

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Let's talk about the big bad wolf of pricing. I feel like we're even like, what do we even say that we haven't said? But I just feel like it still needs to be talked about because there's a lot of positive and negative like conversations about floral pricing. Um, I don't think it helps that like the TikTok and Reels like algorithm right now is like very rage baity. Like, I feel like that's kind of the big thing is like people rage baiting anybody about like florists are ridiculous, or can you believe I got this kind of a quote? And it's such a bummer because I feel like coming off of like 2023 when it was such a big like women supporting women, the Barbie movie, like the Eras tour, like it was a very girl boss girl energy, and I feel a little bit bummed because I feel like we've definitely started pushing into like a more negative area where I feel like now it is like let's like make fun of how this girl did this thing. I even saw I have a friend who's an influencer here in Utah, and I saw a video that made me kind of laugh because I was like, wow, like that's such like a funny thing to share. But I was like, this girl was posting, it was like reverse psychology. She was like, I just think that influencers in Utah, meanwhile, again, she's an influencer that's not my friend, but I sent this reel to my friend that's an influencer. But this girl whose video that came up on my page was like, I think that Utah influencer culture is so mean, girl. All these girls posted about this event. I don't know if you know the Day hair products, but the Day hair product company did like this really pretty like influencer event. And every um I followed tons of people who went to it, and it was so fun for so many people. And they did invite a lot of like micro influencers and big ones as well. This girl didn't get the invite and seemed a little bit salty, but instead of just being like, Oh, I'm so bummed, like I didn't get invited, like I'd love to come another time. She like made it about like how all the girls that went were mean girls because they posted that they went and that like that's such mean girl behavior to be sharing that. And I was glad because when I went to the comment section, a lot of people who had attended and were just like you know, there were like, I think it's more about like being proud of like this accomplishment and like they're excited to share what they're doing. Like, I'm so sorry that like you were offended, but like I don't think it's it's not that deep. Like, and so it just kind of it played into this. Like, I think when it comes to pricing, there's like the two people, right? The people that are like supporting you and excited for what you're charging, and then there's the people who are like just tearing you apart for what you're charging, or other florists are kind of like getting really competitive, and that makes us sad to see. So we're gonna hopefully give some positivity and break down why there's so much like discomfort with pricing.

Grocery Store Flowers And Wedding Tax Myths

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Okay, the big one I think is that people go to the grocery store or Trader Joe's or a farmer's market and they see flowers for five dollars. They see a little bunch of flowers for five dollars, and they just like probably five stems. Yeah, and they just like get this in their head that this is the cost of flowers. And so then when you tell them that, you know, this luxe stem of anthurium photo is $12 for this stem of Anthurium wholesale, they think you're lying. They like I I think, and again, it's what you're saying, this TikTok thing of it's like creating this mistrust of oh, I'm being sneaky. Um, you hear the phrase like wedding tax, you know, like, oh, don't tell them it's for a wedding.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yeah, tell them it's for an event and not a wedding.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Because they're gonna charge you more if it's for a wedding. Think about catering. You can go to a restaurant and get a meal for like 25 bucks, but maybe that same meal is gonna be $50 per person or $75 per person at the wedding. And you're like, oh my, what? Like, it shouldn't be that expensive. I could get that same meal at Texas Roadhouse for $25. The wedding that I just did this weekend, I'm like driving my van up this hill. A caterer has to take the food to the venue. They have to somehow have it hot all at one time for 150 people. They're refilling like these dishes before they empty. Exactly. They have to have people to serve the food. Like, there's so many things involved to make 150 plates of hot food at a you know different location than they're making it.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

They're clearing the tables. So you're not walking to the trash can most times.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Like, yeah, so I just think like let's think about like the actual logistics. Like, are things more expensive for a wedding? Well, yeah, but there's like a reason because they're finding price gouts.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Like if you went and labor is more intensive.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yes, if you went and had a birthday party for 150 people in the middle of the woods, it also would be more expensive. It's just that people generally aren't having a birthday party for 150 people, you know? Not gonna be, yeah. Yeah. So it's like this thing of like, oh, you're trying to trick me, you're trying to make a ton of money off of me. Um, I have to like stand up for myself and whatever. And then that's when we start kind of getting these like weird questions, or okay, pet peeve, something I've heard from brides a lot recently is, oh, well, I've been doing a lot of research, so I know this should cost blank. Like, I know that my budget is a good budget. And you're like, Yeah. I'm like, okay, well, have you actually reached out to any florist? Because this would be different if you'd reached out to three other florists. I was your fourth florist, and you're like, Yeah, I generally have an idea of pricing right now. I'd be like, cool, you've reached out to florists in this area that are at the same caliber.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Chat GPT, or you went to the knot or the wedding wire, that doesn't count. That's not real information. Like, genuinely, that's not real information. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

The other, my other pet peeve with this is like you said again, TikTok. When you see this thing, that's like, I got a quote for $4,000. So I went to Trader Joe's instead. And then it's like the montage of like the mom and her like making all the bouquets, and like I just want to comment and be a mean girl for a second. Like, right, yes, and they'll take their inspo photo and do a side-by-side by side what they end up. They're like with. We went to Trader Joe's and I'm like, yeah, babe, we know. We know. And looks like there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

But if you think that what you made is the same quality, then yeah, you made the right choice.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Yes, and that's my that's actually my nice girl side of that mean girl comment is like, if you can't tell the difference, yeah, probably a florist was a bad investment for you because if you're happy with this, you really, yeah, like on like I'm not being sarcastic right now. Yeah, you really shouldn't spend the money on a florist because you can't tell the difference. So yeah, why would you, why would you spend the money for luxury product when you're happy with the with what you made, you know?

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Hard truth number

Handling Pushback And Building Client Trust

SPEAKER_00 19:26

one that I'm gonna give anyone who's a florist and you're like, yeah, I struggle pricing myself because of the imposter syndrome, and of course, all of this negative conversation that you're hearing. You will have people say rude things about the way that you're pricing. It's just a fact that you need to accept. Again, back to last week's episode on the like, you can't live your life being like that won't ever happen. Like, you have to just accept it, right? People talk bad about you when you're not in the room. I've accepted that and I'm okay because I'm like, yeah, it happens, but guess what? Like, it doesn't have to affect me. It doesn't have to affect me that someone doesn't like how I'm running my business, and that's fine because that's clearly not my clientele. Those clearly aren't my supporters if a competitor is going to be rude that I'm charging appropriately. Like, and that's not okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

People are gonna be mad no matter what. Yes. Again, last week's episode, we shared that bride and groom that gave me a really bad review, they didn't spend more than $500 with me and they were still mad about pricing.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

It doesn't, what I'm saying is it doesn't actually have to do with like how much you're charging. And in fact, as you step up into higher clientele, it might get a little bit easier. Yeah, it still does come. Like it's not like I never get pushback, but it is a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

But it's a professional pushback, right? Like today I just had a finalizing call and my bride said, Hey, I'm thinking about removing the greenery on the chandeliers. What do you think? She asked me in the planner, and we said, Well, like, if you're totally just like, I don't know how I feel about it, I would say, yeah, do it. And then I said, if it's a pricing cutback, then I think that's a great place to cut back because it isn't going to make or break your event. But if you have the budget for it, it's beautiful. It's an $800 difference, so it could go either way. And then she opened up and said, Yeah, I'm just on the fence. Paper goods are expensive. I love the look of menus, and I I'm it's kind of either or. And so me and the partner both just said, Yeah, just remove the chandeliers, no big deal. And that was an example of like kind pushback, right? She wasn't saying, Yeah, you're pricing crazy, that's exhausting, or that's stupid, or dumb, like I can't believe you do this. Like, it was just like, hey, I need a place to cut. Do you think this is okay? And the conversation's different than wow, this is a joke.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Like anyone that has that attitude, run. No, no. Then this is the conversation you should be having because we are professionals and part of our job is figuring out how to best use your budget. I'm gonna Read a caption from a post I did a few days ago. Um, it says okay, it was like my kind of chic post. Kind of chic to trust your florist. Please tell me you trust me. Please say whatever you think is best, and I want you to get creative with it. When you need to cut back on budget or have room to scale up, ask me what I would recommend. Tell me your worries, ask my advice, let me carry some of this weight you've been holding. TikTok has been handing out a lot of advice, and sometimes it makes people think their florist is trying to trick them or take advantage of them in some way. I'm a girl's girl, I've got a good heart, and I'm really good at what I do. Trust me. I like that. And like, thank you. And I just feel like it's this thing of again, I'm not trying to screw you over. I'm trying to be helpful. So I just had a bride last week who I I always show multiple price points for things. So, like for her centers, I showed her a light, mid, and full option. And I think the light was at 125 and then the full went up to like 350. And we were chatting, going over the proposal together, and she's like, I kind of like the light option. And I was like, honestly, me too. I think it's the prettiest one for like the vibe that you're wanting. I'm not gonna like make you pay more money just because. Like, again, we're trying to see like where can we best use your budget? And then later, when we're talking about like her escort table florals, it's like we can go really, really big there because she cut back somewhere else. So trust your florist. We're here as professionals and ask questions too. What do you think? Or where can I cut back? Or would this look okay? Instead of telling me.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

And I feel like, yeah, as a florist, I just think getting in that mindset of it's okay that someone doesn't like how you're running your business, they can go find somebody else. And I have said that to people multiple times. Instead of having them bully me to change my pricing, I've said, you are welcome to go shop around for florists. I know that there is probably someone who is better suited for your needs. And I don't even have to be mean about it, but it's just a simple fact of like, yeah, clearly we're not a good fit. So I think as a florist, if you're struggling with the imposter syndrome of pricing, just accept that like it is normal for people to give you that pushback. And it is really frustrating, but it's kind of an inevitable like thing that's gonna happen. I do feel like let's we're gonna talk a little bit about how you should calculate your pricing and how you can adjust it so that you're not feeling. I think the biggest comment I've heard from newer florists um in their first couple years of business where they aren't charging enough. So they're probably starting to hit that panic of like, man, ca is it sustainable? But they feel like it's dumb for them to be charging the same amount as a florist like Johanna and I, who are in multiple years of experience. Um, but there are ways where you can not undercut, but still have your pricing slightly differ for it to make sense

The 3.5 Markup And Pricing Methods

SPEAKER_00 24:52

in the industry. So, Johanna, why don't you explain the basic pricing markup? And then I'll go ahead and explain what I recommend to new florists on how to appropriately price differently to maybe continue booking clients until they're able to set that higher minimum or able to be more selective of what weddings they're taking.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

So the florist markup standard markup is a 3.5 times markup on your wholesale price. Cost of goods. Cost of goods. People sometimes will do a 2.5 markup on hard goods and then 3.5 on flowers.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Or you can just do 3.5 on the whole thing. Um and there's kind of like two ways of doing your pricing. So let's say a bride talks to me and says, I want um this centerpiece, and she shows me a picture of the centerpiece. I can then kind of write out my recipe for the centerpiece, write down how much each stem is gonna cost, do a 3.5 times markup, and then that can be the price that I'm giving her for the centerpiece. Or um you can kind of, and this kind of happens, I think, as you do flowers more and you kind of like get a handle on it. You can know, like, okay, for that fullness, that centerpiece is going to cost about $200. You say $200 on your quote, and then you work backwards when you're buying your product. You would do $200 divided by 3.5, and then that's what you spend on your product.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Exactly. So I think there one thing with Floor Street that I love is there's definitely a lot of ways that you can make anything work. Um, a lot of times I'll tell my team when we're designing something, if it's bouton ears, I say, okay, this is how you guys could do it. You could do one person wires it all and one person puts the ribbon on all of it, or you can just both be doing both at the same time. I don't really care how it gets done, as long as the end product is the same. I feel like floristry has that flexibility in a lot of aspects of like, as long as the mechanics are sound, I don't really care how you're doing it. So yeah, if you'd rather have a set price that you know is a safe, like, yeah, this is the benchmark of what someone's going to be paying for centerpiece, and then just when it's time to order, you go do the math on how much you can spend. Totally great. I've done it that way for years. But if you're skeptical of what your pricing is, it might be better to really like dig deep and do the pricing for each individual item so that you have the confidence. Sometimes that's what I think people need, is just building the confidence of like, oh yeah, I've done the math six times this week for bouquets, and they all tend to be around the same. And that's when we say, oh, an average price for bouquet is $350. It's because we've just done the math enough times that like that is generally what it's going to be.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Um, I also think that if you have been doing this for a while, that it's good to do a check-in every now and then to price everything out. I think I'm at a place right now where I need to do that. I've been talking with you about this about how I think I need to be charging more for my center pieces. And just in general, I think I've talked about this before, but my grasp on flower costs is a little bit off this year. Like I think inflation is really hit. And I used to, like last year, year before, I could pull my flowers, put them all on the counter, and be like, okay, this is gonna be about $500. And it would be about $500. And now I'm off by like quite a bit, like almost a third. It's usually about a third more than I expect it to be. So instead of $500, it would be like $700 or like um $650. And it's just frustrating because it makes me question myself, right? I'm like, uh, I shouldn't know this. And then I keep overspending on product because I'm quoting too low. And it's just because what I'm used to, it's like I've been pricing it the same way for a few years now, and I need to match inflation. Yeah, like I need to start going up. So this is my little like reminder to like, let's do a check-in, and maybe for my next few weddings, I am gonna price, price things out before I give them a price.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Yeah, I agree. Um, so we've talked about the basic cost markup for goods and hard goods. There's another piece of this formula missing, which is your labor cost.

Labor Costs And Sustainable Profit

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Um, I think like a good place to start would be 25% labor. I think that's where like most people would say. Um, and I've had people be like, I don't understand, like, how do you know? It's basically 25% on top of my floral total. So before I've added tax, before I've added any like decor package or something like that, which you could technically add a service on top of that, but um, I will just add for me, I do 30% labor. Um, so that's an area where you could change. So you could say, well, I'm gonna price the same floral-wise as a more experienced florist or as industry standard, but you know what? Hey, maybe I'm just going to enlist some friends or work some longer hours and you do a smaller labor cost so that my prices are a little bit lower. And I think that that is a totally acceptable way to cut back. Like if you're willing to take a smaller cut of labor to have more competitive pricing in a sense, but you're not undercutting like the prices of the flowers necessarily. I think that that feels a little bit more like acceptable, right? And I always frame it to other florists as well. Like, well, my hourly rate for freelancing is 30 an hour. So that's why like I might charge a higher percentage on labor. But when I started, I was charging like $20 an hour for my freelance rate. I felt like that was what my experience was worth. That was what my knowledge was worth. And so I think it's acceptable as a florist to say, oh, like my labor costs is a little lower because maybe I don't know as much. I'm not, I'm not paying myself as much as I would pay a different freelancer. I don't know if that makes sense, but I feel like that feels more comparable on a way to scale instead of being like, well, I know that other girls are charging $350 for bouquets, I'll just charge $120. It's like, okay, well, now you're eating the cost of the flowers, and like that's not really serving you in a productive way, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Um well, and we're talking here about how we have this general mistrust, right? Of like, oh, florists are too expensive and the flowers don't actually cost that much. If they reach out to me and I tell them it's $350 for a bouquet, and then they reach out to somebody else who tells them it's $120, then I do look like I'm lying. I do look like I'm charging way, way too much. And that's not good for the industry as a whole. You know what would be better is charging $350, charging like you should with your 3.5 markup on your whole invoice.

Discounts Without Undercutting The Industry

SPEAKER_01 31:58

And then you could do a discount on top of that. You could say, like, oh, portfolio building discount and do 20% off the whole.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Or are you running an October special? Usually I'll do something for October because it slows down on booking. So I will do sometimes I'll comp certain items. I'll comp a welcome piece, I'll comp a welcome sign, and I'll put the value of that item in there. Um, that's another great way. And again, instead of undercutting the market as a whole, you can incentivize them, right? Free bridal bouquet when you book your full wedding with me for the month of whatever. Um, those are really great ways to incentivize a client without taking a dig at another florist. We talked about this a tiny bit before we got on our call. Um, I think generally you guys will get the vibe of we are so supportive of other businesses. I love to stand up for people who need someone to stand up for them when they're doing the right thing. But unfortunately, I can also get really, really upset with you if you're doing something shady. Um, and if you're a florist who's intentionally undercutting florists to book your events, I do not want to be friends with you. I don't want to help you in your business because you're hurting the industry and you're hurting all of the work that we have tirelessly built for the last five years in this community, trying to help people charge appropriately and trying to legitimize floral pricing within planners, with clients, with venues. And when someone goes and intentionally undercuts and continues to do it even after we've kind of tried I have multiple times said, Hey, just so you know, this is what I charge for this wedding. If I know that the client didn't book me, because I've my friend Maddie and I from Market Floral, we've both been sent the same weddings. I've talked about this before. And one time somebody responded to one of us, I can't remember, um, but it was the same wedding we'd bid for. So we both knew we were both w in line. It was maybe like a 10 grand wedding. Um, so like nothing crazy, but they wanted to spend three. And the client came back and said someone was willing to do it for thousands multiple less than what you quoted. And it was really uncomfortable because yeah, what that said was the client didn't believe or was frustrated that we had overpriced. She thought we'd overpriced and like that we were trying to take advantage of her. And so not only we didn't care, we didn't book the wedding, we were mad that somebody made us look like we were being sketchy. And like that's so, so frustrating. And I've totally undercut unintentionally. There were years I did not know I was supposed to charge a labor cost. There were times when I thought that I was charging appropriately and I didn't know, and someone kindly said, Hey, this is what I'm charging, and I said, Oh my gosh, I did not know that. I went and adjusted my pricing. But when people aren't having that community mindset, I just hope they understand, or I guess it's worth it for them to kind of be a lone wolf in the community. In Utah, though, that is pretty rare to be a lone wolf in the floral community. If you don't have any floral friends, I don't want to be like rude, but like maybe take a look at is there something that you're doing within your business that's causing people to not want to align themselves with you as a floral friend? Because that's your biggest asset, I think, as a florist, is your community and having someone to help you price check and have the confidence. And if you don't have someone there doing that, I really recommend you to do a little, a little insight of looking into your character and maybe make those efforts. If it's just a simple, you're not making the efforts, I think it could really benefit you. So that's my my community and underpricing tale of it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Like, um, okay, well, I found somebody who is charging thousands of dollars less. Um did they end up booking with that person or did they book with one of you? No, they booked with the person that's thousands less. And so which makes sense because my thing is like again, I'm not forcing anybody. Yes. I'm not forcing anybody to spend money with me. So I can charge however much I want. Exactly. I can say it's gonna cost, I can say I'm charging 90% labor. That would be crazy, but like I could say that because I'm not making anybody book with me. They can choose to book elsewhere, and so I think it's funny when somebody's coming to you and be like, well, I found it for thousands of dollars less. And my response is like, okay, so go book with them.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Well, exactly. It's like I'm not under the impression that I am the lowest priced florist. Like, I'm well aware that I'm not, but I think there was one time when I even reached out to the planner and was really upfront. And it was a wedding that I didn't get. And again, I'm sure that there's someone out there like, well, I bet you were just mad that you didn't book it. I was genuinely concerned because it was like, well, I f it was the same thing. I found somebody who was able to do it for so much less. Sorry, we're not booking with you. I reached out to the planner who I don't know super well, and I I knew it might rubber the wrong way, but I just said, like, hey, I full disclosure, just wanted to make sure you understand that as a florist, I'm very alarmed if someone is offering the same inspiration photos that we discussed for thousands less. I'm worried it's gonna come at the expense of your client's vision. And I just hope that you guys understand that that could be a risk because there is no way that they're able to acquire these flowers unless if they choose to make no money, that's on them. But my biggest concern would be that it is not going to be the vision that they think they're getting.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Um well, and that's what's so confusing to me too, because it's not like I'm rolling in the dough over here. It's not like I've got gobs and gobs of money. Like, I'm kind of fighting to survive with what I charge. So I'm like, how are you how?

SPEAKER_00 38:23

How are you charging less? Like, I don't it's I don't get it. And again, I'm sure if you're listening and you're new and you're like, well, yeah, like it's so it's scary to make a price increase, but I can tell you when I started, let's on the count of three say how much we charged bride of bouquets in the first couple years of our business.

Raising Prices Without Losing Bookings

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Three, two, one. 150. Oh my gosh, that's funny. I didn't even I would charge 150 for a bride of bouquet that included peonies and brunculas, and I was so scared to bump it up. Usually I go in like $50 increments. So then I did $200, then I did $250, then I did $300, then I did $350, and it's been pretty steady there for me for a while. I've started upping it to $375 for next year. Um, but as you can see, I'm still getting booked. And I think people are convinced, like, I'm gonna up my prices and no one's gonna book me. But like every time you do it and you continue to book, you're only gonna be thinking, dang it, I wish I'd done that sooner. Sooner. Same thing with labor.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Okay, so I didn't even charge labor when I started. I didn't either started charging at 15%. Nobody ever comes to me and is like, what is this labor charge? Why are you charging labor? I nobody ever offers me that's not a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Had anybody question that?

SPEAKER_01 39:54

No, and I'm at 30% labor. Um, but if it's a really big event, I go up to 40 because um kind of what we were talking about with like this catering idea. It's like the bigger the event, the more hands I need. Yeah, and it's not just it's like it kind of grows exponentially, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:11

It's not just like a skilled designer too. You can't just have Josie from down the street like do an install for you. You need like a high-priced freelancer too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

So um, labor is one of those things too that you might be really scared, and you're like, okay, I did have a girl ask me actually last year. She's like, I don't get it. I don't get the labor charge. Like, why do you charge labor? Because we're already doing a 3.5 times markup, and like that's already built into it. But like another florist asked you this. Another florist asked me this when I was in Utah for the for my Moab wedding. Um, because she was like, I don't charge extra labor. And I told her, okay, so right now I'm in Utah. Travel kind of can be a different thing. Like, I sometimes do a separate travel charge. Um, but I told her, like, right now I'm in Utah, so I'm not in my house. Um, I don't have like my normal studio set up, so I have to find somewhere to make the flowers. Then I have to hire all of you guys who are here right now to make the flowers. Okay. I have to get a van or a truck to transport all of these. I'm feeding my freelancers. I um I mean, I'm I'm physically working for the whole week that I have the flowers, plus all of the time that I've put in before. You're driving around. I'm driving around, I'm spending money on gas. Like all of that to me, like that's labor. Like, yeah. And I couldn't, I mean, I couldn't afford to even pay my freelancers. No, just my 3.5 times markup.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Yeah. I need the labor chart. Like, you wouldn't be making a profit at all. It's like your profit should be coming from your own hours as a freelancer, essentially, right? Like, oh, I did six hours at 30 an hour, that's that. And then your profits from your flowers. It's not like your labor is something that you're profiting off of. Like, if you're doing it right, it should be just like basically balancing out, right? Like zeroing out that labor cost. Like, oh, I have six hundred dollars on this wedding for labor. So now I can decide how many freelancers I need and how I want to spread that out. Um I know some people have done like, well, I just kind of add up the amount of hours and people that I think it will be, and then that's my labor cost. But if you do the math, it's honestly a well, I've the feedback I've gotten from people is like it actually levels out to be about the same. Like, because if it's a percentage, it's just a math equation, right? So it's like however you get that, it doesn't really matter. But if you're like, yeah, it's gonna take my team six hours or whatever, and I need four people for that, then maybe your total's, yeah, whatever. I don't know, like $700 on labor, and then you could also just do a flat 20%, and then that's just it's just easier for me to do it that way than be like, let me now figure out who I have and whatever. So I'll just take my labor cost and then yeah, subtract what I think my hours will be. I'll set aside a chunk and then be like, okay, so looking at this, I can hire six people at $25 an hour, or I could do more hours and make less money or make more money for myself. I don't know. Depends how you want to dice it. So that's a little bit of that mindset on pricing.

Rapid Fire Starting Prices That Work

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Let's do like a quick rapid fire of like how much we're charging for certain things. Obviously, these are just starting prices. We don't have any pictures we're showing you of these things we're talking about. So um, but we already said bridal bouquet 350, boutonier.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah. Bouton ears, I do twenty five, and they're all magnets. So there's not like a some people will do less if it's not magnet, which is fair, but Corsage, I do thirty five. I do thirty, but I feel like yeah, I could do I could do some more.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

I just paint. Bridesmaids, I used to do 85 and I've bumped it up to 125 recently. Yeah, I was gonna say that's crazy at 85. I do 120 minimum.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Yeah. And then I'll do less is like I just did like the Cala Lily thing where it was just three cavalas. Yes. And I think I did like 60 for those.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

But like I realized I'm like, I always hate making the bridesmaids' bouquets. And I was like, well, I should just charge more and then I can make them prettier. You know? And like that's the thing, guys, with pricing. Okay. Like because I'm charging more, I can afford better product and then like make something that's actually beautiful. Same thing with a bridal bouquet. Um, this last one was $375. And I said, you know, it was really, really hot uh for this last wedding. After she took pictures, they took an hour and a half of pictures before the ceremony even started, and they were in the direct sunlight that whole time. So after their photos, I went and I took the ribbon off. I took the tape off of her bridal bouquet. I took out all the wilty flowers. I did a whole refresh. I added all new flowers, taped it back up, did the ribbon, and then had it to her before the ceremony started. She was so impressed. The flowers looked so much better, like just ready for the ceremony. And I just felt like that's so cool that I can do that because I, you know, I'm charging appropriately. And they're paying a luxury price. So now they get a luxury experience. They're getting luxury florals, they're getting a florist who is paying attention to them and putting in a lot of care. Like, that is the benefit of charging more. And I just want to reiterate like, if you're just starting out and you're like, there's no way, there's no way I can charge that much, there's no way whatever. I always say, you got to do what's best for you and your business. At the end of the day, you can listen to us talk all day long and then ignore whatever you want to ignore and do what's best for you and your business. And if you're starting out and you're charging less for a bridal bouquet and you're not using luxury flowers and you're kind of just doing like bread and butter basics because you're still learning, you know what? You do you, girl. Like, just do your best. Try not to screw anybody over and undercut the market. But like, yeah, I I get what it feels like to start out.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

And at the end of the day, too, like we've said this, but like you could totally message us and say, Hey, yes, these are my pricing. What do you think? Yeah. And I will be totally nice and honest. Like, lots of people will do like a oh dang it, I just lost the word. Oh, like a social media audit and be like, oh, let me like audit your page for you and look at it. We can totally do a little audit on your pricing if you're like, is this like good? Am I whatever? And it will totally come from a place of love of like, hey, I think you could charge more for this. I think you could charge more for this, especially like when we can see like your product too. Like, oh, this is the ingredients I'm normally using. This is what I'm charging. Um, we are happy to tell you. Um, and it does just know, like, it is uncomfortable, even still. I send a quote for more than $10,000, and I'm like gonna vomit. I'm so price sensitivity, like, because I did not grow up with very much money. Like, $200 to me for a bridal bouquet sounded outrageous when I started. Like, I had to push past my money sensitivity on like learning that while $200 to me is a lot, to others, it might not be. And that's where you can kind of like work through your own mental block on pricing too, is like, oh, maybe you're more sensitive to the cost of things because you're just you're more sensitive to what things cost, and that's fine, and it just takes some time to kind of

Candle And Decor Pricing Breakdown

SPEAKER_00 47:46

push through. Um, okay, we did a little uh open call on um questions that people have with pricing, and this one I thought was actually really, really great. And Johanna, I'll have you kind of answer it first and then I'll pipe in if I feel like there's something different. Candles. We never know if we're overcharging hurricanes, candlestick holder, plus the cleaning of all of them. I think decor is actually a really great spot to talk about with pricing because that is one that I do feel like varies. So give us your how do you price decor? Do you have a set fee? Is it per candle? How does that all work?

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Um, it's per candle. I do tea lights or votives for $4. I have some really pretty elevated votives from Yummy Candle that I really, really like. Um, first that I do for $6. Pillars are seven to eight dollars. Um, and this is like all with the glassware and the candle. Tapers are eight doll without a chimney and um twelve doll with the chimney. And I do my labor charge on top of the candles. Like I add the candle and flower price before I do my 30% labor charge. And it seems expensive. Okay, $12 for one taper candle and a chimney seems expensive. However, those chimneys are beasts. Like one box of four is huge. And the you have to like remember again, like the all of the things that are included in this candle showing up on the table is like me storing all my chimneys, me cleaning the chimneys every time they get used, me pulling them down the stairs. I have to get a bigger truck than I would be if I was just doing flowers so that it can fit all of the chimneys. Then I have to make sure that I have extra hands on the day of to put all the candles in. We use stick them or um sometimes I use plastic wrap and wrap it around the base of the candle. We use both of those things to make sure the candle's straight. I have to have enough help to light all the candles at the right time because that you can't light them too early. If there's just one person lighting candles, then like, you know, it's gonna take an hour to light all the candles. And now these candles have been lit for one hour. Anyways, then we have to have somebody at the end of the night to blow them all out. We usually account for time for the wax to harden a little bit before we pick them up and like put them back in their case to take them home. That's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Candles candles are a beast. Do you feel like there's an average you end up like is there an average quantity or total that you feel like your clients hit with decor when said and done?

SPEAKER_01 50:25

700 to 1500. That's like where it usually ends up for me for candles.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Okay, see that's crazy. So I do it different and I have a meaning to adjust this.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

But I have been telling you to change this for so long.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

It's better than I think the last time we talked. Okay, so this actually brings us to just a mini tangent. It's gonna be that every florist has like their areas that I feel like they dip into or cut, but then at the end of the day, our prices are all the same. So I might charge less for chandelier greenery than somebody else, but maybe they're charging less for their boutineers than I am. Does that make sense? So sometimes it's like it doesn't really matter as long as you're not cutting everywhere in such a hard cut. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

For example, I know I know I spend more on my flowers than you do. I overbuy every damn time. Every time. I have so much product, and I make the things way nicer than I should be making them. Like just for this last wedding, the centers were supposed to be like simple, simple like greenery with a few flowers for 125 bucks. And I ended up making them like literally $300 centerpiece. So like ask me.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

So it's just kind of like you, we all have our little our vices on like, uh yeah, I'll charge less. But again, like at the end of the day, like I've compared some quotes with friends again that were like quoting the same wedding, and it's like, oh, that's funny. Like our total is the same, but how we built those costs were a little different, right? Like my aisle pieces might be less than somebody else's, but maybe their ceremony piece as a whole is bigger than mine is. Um, so that being said, I think my decor section is usually my area where I kind of like cut a little bit and try to incentivize a client to book with me because adding decor is a very um, what is the word? Like it's not incentivizing, but it's like a really easy way for someone to want to book. So value. Yeah, you're adding a lot of value, especially if there is a planner involved, or if you're wanting to make sure your your weddings are looking very lush and luxe, decor will make a huge difference. A dollar store candle versus something pretty from like yummy candles, or even just something nice from Amazon will make a huge difference. And I started offering decor to clients when I was unhappy with how my tablescapes always looked because I'd make a really pretty centerpiece and then they'd bring their own little picture frames and silly little candles, and like it's just like I didn't want to post those pictures, and I felt like that was hurting. So when I started offering it, it made it really easy for a client to be like, okay, yeah, like let's just throw that on. Um, especially in the luxury space, a planner is not wanting to do the decor, like they do not want to have to have another thing to deal with. And it's in Utah, there's like one or two companies that will do just decor. Um, but it's kind of like a weird, like you could make some money, but it probably wouldn't be that worth it. So just know as the floor, it's not unreasonable for someone to ask you to also offer decor. Um, but I just do a flat fee of I do $500 for whatever. I say whatever decor that they want. Um, but for me, it's usually me who's picking what they're using, anyways. And so it's kind of like the ball is in my core. So I have the like two different types of lamps, the votives, the taper candles. Um, I just have like glass and gold options on like a couple of things, really, just glass and gold for taper candle holders, and then everything else is glass. Um, so I just do the flat fee, and then I say like that can be pillar candles, it can be floating candles, and then usually I'm talking with the planner on like so, like what do we want this to look like? But I'll be honest, most of the time they're like, Well, what do you think? Because it's me who's setting the table. So usually my like recipe for decor is like two to three tapers. Sometimes if I'm doing lamps, I'd say two to three tapers per farmhouse. Um, if I'm doing lamps on a table, I'll do one or two. If I'm depending again, like it's like we have to cut on flour. Sometimes we can just go more on heavy on the decor and kind of balance it. I like to do nine to twelve bud vases, four votives, and then like three either pillar or floating candles. So like one of each size. So usually it's like when I'm doing multiples, it's like one of each size. So my votives, it's like a tall, a medium, and a short. Yeah. And a T light. I'm doing a small, tall, and large, like whatever. And so usually my recipe is like about the same to where I'm like, oh yeah, like this is this is pretty dialed in. So I'm never doing crazy, crazy amounts of decor. I know some people do. So I usually just do like a $500 flat fee. But I will be honest, there's been multiple times where if I'm really trying to book a big event, like I will cut that down a little bit. And I'm like, yeah, I'm willing to like buy extra chimneys or whatever, but it's funny because my assistant's always like, you need to charge more labor for cleanup. But when I have my interns, it that's that's the thing I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Yes, you have interns to do a lot of that work, and I'm not. So yeah, I think that does even out too. Yeah. Um, again, at the end of the day, like you're gonna do what's best for you and your business.

Taking The Emotion Out Of Pricing

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Um, I want to end with some trickle-down therapy. Um, I love it. I was talking to my therapist about pricing and just totally this imposter syndrome. Um, she was talking about the emotion of pricing. And she was like, it's just such an interesting field of work because first of all, it's mostly female led, right? We're mostly all women here. Um, but then second of all, it's not something that people generally know the pricing for. So you have to do a lot of educating your clients. And she said, um, she's like, I want you to start thinking about plastic surgeons. And when you charge a client, it's think about it like a plastic surgeon is charging their client. And if somebody comes and says, I want a boob job, and they say, Cool, it's gonna be $20,000, the client isn't like, uh, what? Why can't you do it for $600? Because nobody wants a $600 boob job. And if they went to a doctor and they said, How much is this boob job? And the doctor says it's $600, they'd be like, red flag, let me get the heck out of here. I don't want that. Or food. Honestly, I'm like, if my food was a dollar, I'd be like, Yes, what? Yes, exactly. And so, and she was like, Nobody, I mean, maybe, maybe there are some people that medically need, I don't know. But she's like, for the most part, people don't need a boob job. They know that that is an elective procedure, it's a luxury service, whatever. And if that is too much for them, they can choose to just not get it. Yeah. And I was like, that is such I loved that way of thinking about it. And I think sometimes we really just do need to take this emotion out of it. We need to stop thinking about how much we would pay because I'm not my client, right? I'm not living the same life they were.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Stop saying, what are they gonna think? Yes, like it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

It doesn't matter if they're mad, they can get the thing, you're not forcing them to spend this money with you. And if they find something cheaper somewhere else, they're welcome to go to that other place.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Amazing. I just yeah, I agree with everything.

Final Encouragement And Closing

SPEAKER_00 57:45

I feel like this hopefully is gonna give some of you guys a little bit more confidence and clarity when it comes to pricing. Um, as always, please just message us if you are struggling in any areas. Like we love seeing this industry continue to no pun intended, but bloom with women who are kind of finding their passion, whether you are really young and you've known forever, um, or um, this is like a later in life decision you're making. I have a couple interns this season that are not like 20 years old, and it's been really sweet to see their excitement of finding their passion um and finding something that brings them joy that also can just give them that extra income. Um, and it's not fun unless you're you're at least breaking even, and pricing is really what's gonna make this job last for you or not, because you can only do free labor for so long before it's not gonna be fun. You're not gonna like your job if you have nothing to show for all your exhausting hours of work. Um, and I think that's what it comes down to, right? Is like we want you to price because we want you to enjoy your job and to create, get to create beautiful things and be proud of them and instead of like hating what you made because you had to use like the world's cheapest product. Like that's when I started raising my prices. Was like, I don't, like you said, I don't like the way this looks. Like, yeah, this isn't something I'm proud of. I don't want to post about it, but if I'd had more product, I think I'd probably be happier with it. So if that's the mindset you've been in, it might be time to take a look at your pricing and maybe adjust things so you're in a more sustainable spot. Um, so that's kind of that there. Please send us your takeaways or insights that you had. We love when you post on your stories and you tag us. We want to reshare. We're gonna be better about posting on our social media as well. And we're just excited to have you sitting with us here today. Bye.