What Makes You a Great Florist + Freelancer

We swap our highs and lows, then get brutally honest about what separates a solid florist and a solid freelancer from someone who creates chaos on wedding day. We share boundaries, pricing realities, and the event-day etiquette that makes teams trust you and ask you back. 
• setting client expectations without overpromising on budget or skill 
• using realistic inspo and mockups instead of luxury Pinterest photos 
• holding boundaries with planners and price shoppers 
• moving fast while staying calm and professional 
• staying “invisible” and reading the room on event day 
• keeping detachment when weather, shipping, or substitutions go wrong 
• learning flower names, seasons, and smart substitutions 
• what freelancer experience actually looks like in real time 
• Utah vs California freelance rates and why they differ 
• red flags that get freelancers removed from the team 
• reliability, attitude, and self-care as non-negotiables 
If you guys have any horror stories as a freelancer or a florist or anything that you loved about this episode, please send us a DM at the Lunch Club Podcast on Instagram. 

Transcript

Welcome Back And The Plan

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Lunch Club podcast. Johanna and I are so excited to be back. We had a little week off because it's 'tis the season of wedding season and vacation time and trying to fit all the things in, but we're so glad to be back. Today's episode is going to be all about it's like a good two for one. You get to learn about what makes you a good florist and what makes you a good freelancer. Because both are things I think all of us could work on, and as we have collectively like 10 years experience, I think we have a lot to share. And maybe some of these are hot takes, but we hope that some of these are really helpful. So without further ado, let's get into it.

Highs Lows And Real Life Updates

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Johanna, why don't you start us off with highs and lows for what's happened since the last time we chatted?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Okay, I actually didn't even realize that we had skipped a week. It's so funny too, because last week neither of us really did. And last week we were like, okay, the episodes come out every two weeks, like just so everybody knows. We're like, relax, relax, relax. And then we're like, oops, Wetsies. But um, I was in Half Moon Bay for a week freelancing, and then I went to Cancun for fun with my twin sister. So that was my high was Cancun, and um just getting to spend time with her. I mean, our husbands were there too. It sounds like we just went the two of us, but like we brought our husbands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like that was the highlight. The highlight was being with her. Um, and it just yeah, it was a good time. But my low was that I started my period there at a water park, and this period has just like kicked my ass. So, like, in addition to starting it at a water park, I also bled through my period panties at the airport. My cramps have been bad, and I've just been like moody as hell. Like, I'm definitely depressed.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Oh, so I am so sorry. That's my low. Well, this too shall pass. I know we always tell ourselves this, but I mean, I feel like next week's gonna hit, and you're gonna be like, oh my gosh, I feel amazing. And you're gonna be like turns out I wasn't depressed.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

I know. I it's always like a little bit validating when it does come. I'm like, yes, oh yes, yes. This makes sense forever.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah. Um, well, that was quite a good high. I mean, what a good time. Ugh, Mexico. I've never been, but it's definitely on my list. I finally actually have a passport, so the world is my oyster these days. Um, okay, my high and low. I'm gonna start with my low. You guys, let me just paint you this picture. I had the most hellish week of my entire life. That's that's pretty traumatic. Okay, I would say this was like third-tier stomach bug. Um, stomach bugs are just a whole different beast when you have like human beings you're trying to keep alive um that cannot fund for themselves. So I got a stomach bug on like a Friday, was it Friday night? Yeah, it was Friday night. And I was like so excited, Memorial Day weekend. I'm like, we have plans. My husband doesn't work on Monday, and Friday night I wake up, I'm like, I feel, I feel awful. I it's like you can tell the difference between like, ooh, I don't I feel nauseous and like I will be throwing up. Yes. So I definitely was like, I will be throwing up in the next two hours. Um, what really, really sucks for mo I would say mostly my husband is that I have pots, so it's like I I know the acronym really well, but now that I'm like on the spot, I'm gonna mess it up. Basically, it's a blood pressure disorder, and so if I like stand up too quickly and then sit down, my blood pressure doesn't adjust, and so it's like I will I will pass out. And it happens a lot, it's really bad when I'm sick because I think my body's just like kind of already on the fritz. So it's happened to me before where I'm throwing up and I pass out. Like because I'm like running to get to the toilet, I get on my knees and then I pass out. Oh no. So that means that Cody's like on duty and like he gets so nervous about it. So like he's just standing there like watching me throw up, and I'm like, no one wants that.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Like it's taking me back to when you passed out in the kitchen and he was like, Is she dead? Like he was so worried.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Me and my husband are pretty opposite. So, like, I'm like go with the flow, super like low-key. I'm just like, oh whatever, no big deal. Like, yeah, if I get in a car accident, I get in a car accident. Like, I don't know. I just like can't live my life around being afraid of like anything. Just another Tuesday. He is like running through every worst case scenario, like super high stress. And so he had actually never seen me pass out for some reason. Like, he's always just not there. Like, he's just somehow never been there. And so I had had foot surgery. This is like a whole tangent you guys didn't need, but I mean, it's like a pretty good story, I guess. So you're in it now. I had gotten foot surgery, and like I just wasn't doing well after the anesthesia, like it was super nauseous, and like my oxygen was really low, and so they didn't really want to release me because they were like, Oh, like this is like not acceptable. So they had like already kind of freaked him out, I think, because they were like, Hey, you gotta watch your oxygen. Like, do you have one of those like finger clippies? So I was like, Oh yeah, he's like, Yes, let me just get my O2 like monitor thing. Um, so he I like at home, I'm napping, and then this is like is always the scenario. I walked downstairs to like get food, and like because I I would had been sleeping and I stood up and walked down the stairs, I I like always no, I looked at him and I was like, I'm gonna pass out. So I like sat on the ground. I like can get myself into a laying position and it just doesn't matter. So I laid down, but because I had had like low oxygen and like he was and I was pale, like I looked like a ghost. So he like literally thought I was dying, you guys. He like calls 911, he's like, Oh my gosh, she's dead. And like to be fair, like there because I'd had surgery, like, yeah, it could have been a blood clot, like it could have been serious, but like he I he's cried like three times in the entirety of the seven years I've known him, and he was just so undone and unwell. So now anytime there's a passy outie potential, he is like outie, he is like watching me on like a hawk. And so yeah, I got the stomach bug, he's watching me. I like pull then the morning starts, I'm sleeping in, and then my five-month-old starts throwing up, and like that's problematic because like if she's not eating anything, like she's a baby, so we let I like pull myself together. I'm still like kind of vomity, but I'm like, I gotta take her to the doctor because like again, he doesn't do well in these scenarios all the time. Like, he doesn't know what questions to ask, or like he gets a little flustered, so I'm like, I can do this. I like power through, we take her to the doctor, we get her some Zopra, and I'm like, okay, everything's gonna be fine. Then like Sunday comes, I'm like, hallelujah! Monday hits, he goes down, and I'm like, this could not be any worse. Coupled with I have a wedding, it's on a Thursday, so everything was showing up like Tuesday. I was supposed to have farm pickups and like wholesale pickups, so I'm like, well, I can't get everybody sick. Like, I would feel bad having my nanny come over today. Like it's Tuesday because I'm like, well, then she'll get sick, but I can't really have all my kids doing this wedding with me. So I had to like have my team do it and they did great, but then I had like some major wholesale problems, and like it was I was honestly gonna get sent into retirement.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

It was just like even before you got sick, it was this whole issue.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

It's already been yeah, it had already been. Just like don't I'm just mark my words, do not do a wedding Memorial Day weekend on a weekday, okay? Like there were just so many hiccups with getting things shipped in time, and then because Monday like wholesalers are closed, it just made everything so janky. If it had been a Friday wedding, I think I would have been fine. But Thursday just sent everything into the edge. So Well, I feel like Utah does weekday weddings more.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

I just like I do those here.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah, like Utah weekends fill up first, and then it's kind of like okay, we backfill. Like if I'm still dead set on getting married in this month or like whatever, it's like okay, we'll just and I do feel like Utah does more like coupled with a holiday type wedding, so like close to Christmas, close to Thanksgiving, yeah, or yeah, like I wondered if maybe Memorial Day had anything to do with it because people are like it's easier to get work off, and you know, family can travel a little easier. So I've definitely done more weddings that are close by, especially like Christmas break or stuff like that, where I'm like, oh okay, that's probably why. So that was the longest saga ever to tell you. Milo was getting sick and having to just suck it up and do a wedding, anyways. But the high was definitely that the wedding was absolutely stunning. It's almost like a blessing in disguise because I had like such low expectations just because of the weight that I had had, and you just wanted it to be over. Yeah, like I just hadn't even been like, oh my gosh, this actually looks amazing. Like, it just like didn't really like, and we did a really pretty on-site install, and it was just like really refreshing, just because I do a lot of colorful weddings, but it was like a fun refresh of like ingredients and texture, and so it was a really good, refreshing one for me, and I like already got pictures back, I got video back, so and the bride was stoked. The bride was so happy, like crying tears of joy and just like awe, which was amazing. And then like I had a client call the next day, and like the mom was like, Oh my gosh, like I saw the wedding you did, and it was beautiful. And I was like, it's cute. So all of it was worth it. It was just like one of those, like, how much worse can it get? You know, I'm like, if at this point, I just can't. So I don't even think we conveyed how bad it was. No, it just like because you know, after you have a bug, like you still just like don't feel good. Like, I wasn't throwing up, I just was like, I don't have an appetite, I'm drained of energy, I just I'm stressed beyond stressed. So I was kind of grateful, like, you know what, let's just get this done. And it wasn't like the worst stomach bug I've ever had. Like, I probably only threw up three times. It was really the like pulling it together, pushing through, anyways, like taking phone calls from all sorts of human beings. Like, yeah, almost did me in.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

So Okay, I can't let this vomit story pass without telling my flower vomit story, which is Yes, this was classic. Okay, so good news is this wasn't a full-blown event, it was like helping out a family friend kind of a deal. Um, but on the morning of the event, I woke up and I was ill, and we were in the car driving, kind of running a few errands, and I we had to stop at Walgreens so I could get some like peptopismal or whatever. And then on the drive to this person's house, I was like, pull over, Christian. And he pulled over, I opened the door and just vomited onto the side of the road, closed the door, and said, Okay, like let's go. And we went to her house. I was like doing the flower setup, and I was like, get me a bucket. And he he got me a bucket that had water in it from the flowers, and then I'm vomiting into the flower bucket, and then at that point he was like, I gotta call it, and he booked me an Uber, put me in the car, and he finished the event by himself.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Which, like, let it be known, like, as mentioned, could not be my husband. So, like, thank the Lord your husband's like clocked in that, like, yeah. I mean, that he was the one that was with you and and had the ability to just like persevere and be like, that's fine. I can do this. Oh my gosh, like that is the suckiest part about like being the business owner, like it's you, like there is no one to call out to, there is no one to like you know, call in a new employee. Like, it's it's on you, like you have to find the solution or you have to suck it up. And if that's not in your wheelhouse, I do not recommend.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah, it's uh it's a tricky game here, guys. It's it's not always uh sunshine and rainbows.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Oh, it's not. Okay, so let's just dive into

What Makes A Good Florist

SPEAKER_01 12:35

it. What makes you a good florist? I'm gonna give Minnie actual mini sewed on kind of where this came about. I feel like it coupled with we'll also be doing what makes you a good freelancer. Johanna and I just both did like a full weekend. Well, she did like a full week of freelancing. I did a weekend freelancing, and I feel like it's just always a really relevant topic. On like people will usually ask, at least here in Utah, like the Slack channel will be like, Well, what's my rate? What qualifies me as an experienced freelancer? And I'm like, that's totally fair because it is hard to know, like, well, how do I know what I'm worth? Like, what should I be providing? Like, what kind of an experience do I need to give someone to like be a recommended freelancer? And then I feel like that couples with like what makes you a good florist? Like, what helps you stand out amongst your clients and their bids, and also like what helps you to just provide a good experience for everybody, including your freelancers, because I do think that that matters. If you suck as a business owner and a florist, you won't be doing well at retaining freelancers. So, Joanna, why don't you start us off with a couple things that you've thought of that help you be a good florist? Uh like compared to a average, you know, shop or brick and mortar.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

I feel like one of the big ones um is like knowing my ability and not over-promising my clients. Yes. I think two things um can lead you to overpromise to your client. One is a lack of a budget, and two is lack of experience. So if a client comes to you with their Pinterest and it's like this glorious, gorgeous bar installation that is costing around 1500 bucks, but their budget is like 500 bucks for the bar. Yeah. And you're like, Yeah, we can do that. Somebody's gonna be disappointed. Like someone's gonna be disappointed. I I feel like that's yeah. Yeah, maybe you decide you want to deliver that, but now you don't have any profit. Yeah, there goes your profit margin. Sometimes I'll look at my proposal and I'll be like, upset that what I've created isn't as pretty as the proposal, and then I have to remind myself, oh, well, that's because like that's the Lux version of that. We didn't have the budget for that. And like we discussed it that it wasn't gonna be that gorgeous, that it's gonna be a scaled back version. It's just not possible to be getting that inspo pick with our budget. Let's be real and get good inspo picks, I think, or do like digital mock-ups that actually show what something's gonna look like instead of the over-the-top, gorgeous, expensive Pinterest photos. And then kind of tagging along with that again, like your experience. If you're a new florist and like you haven't ever done a cascading bouquet before, maybe let's not promise a bride that we're gonna do that for them and then try it for the first time on their wedding week, you know? Literally.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

I feel like I kind of could couple that with um like not being afraid to

Budgets Boundaries And Not Overpromising

SPEAKER_01 15:47

like know your boundaries or kind of to put your foot down in a sense. I we will be doing a full pricing deep dive um recipe building episode um any day now, so hold on to your horses. Um, I won't be diving into that, but it has been a really frustrating time, at least for me and a few florists in Utah. We've had a lot of issues with people price shopping, but in kind of a disrespectful way. Like I hate saying that, but like it's been very like uh, you know, no respect for our time and what the people are actually asking us to provide them, and then getting like upset or expecting us to basically fix their misjudgment on what an accurate budget is. Um, and unfortunately it's planners too right now in Utah. Um I'll say planners that are new to weddings or just have only a couple years experience, where instead of like educating a client before they even create a budget, before they reach out to the florist and create their wish list, they just drop us a number, give us a wish list, and then they're like, Okay, like I'd love to see your proposal. And a lot of people feel the need to like to cater to the planner, to cater to the client. You know, you're like, Oh, I don't want to lose this client, or like I don't want to create a bad relationship. But it's not your job. It is not your job to fix the problem that someone else created for themselves by not being properly educated, by not hiring a better wedding planner to give them those expectations, or being willing to take suggestions of yours because I find myself often feeling like bad. I get too emotional where I'm like, oh like I just feel so bad, like you know, they want all these things, but like you have to take the emotion out of it, like it's not your problem, and you don't want that wedding. Like, you don't want that wedding if they're gonna be nickel and diming. I sent a quote out for well, budget was 4,000. I tried to really kind of explain the blooms they're requesting are very luxe, they are very expensive. We're talking orchids, we're talking anthuriums, like these are well over standard price based on and the quantity was just quantities 15 bridesmaids, full like 30 feet serpentine table of calas, a full garden arch, budget was 4,000, and I kept trying to kind of say, like, we can certainly make something work for 4,000. It's just not gonna be this, it's just it's not gonna happen. And shocker shocker, I've been ghosted since then. But I feel like it's way better to stand your ground and to have your own back than to gravel and beg for planners to throw you these weddings that ultimately are feeding you zero percent. Because either, yeah, you're you're taking a hit or you don't want their friends, like I'm sorry, but you don't want their referrals if their friends are anything like them. I said what I said.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

And I just think again, either you're going to dip into your profits at that point. Literally, you're making no money, you would make no money, or you're going to be disappointed with what you've created, your client's gonna be disappointed that it's not like the photos that exactly they wanted. Like it's just it's just not fair, and that's kind of the issue that we have when me and you will price something at that like 17k price point, and then another florist is like, Oh, I could do that for eight.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Can you actually Yeah, like did you do the math? Is this really fair to the client? Are they really gonna get what they're asking for? I don't believe that they're gonna get what they're asking for because I know you can't do those Insphotos for that price, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

So I just think making you a good florist is being able to. I mean, this just sounds bad, but like don't let other people push you around or tell you how to run your business. Don't let a planner tell you, I need this for this budget. You can say, have fun on your way. Like I that's I'm not putting myself in that position. Um, I just think it's better to set that boundary early than to be the florist that's known as the undercutter or the person that they can get to do anything. Like that's never gonna, that's never gonna be a good turnout for you. So I feel like that's that's my big one, at least in this season of where I'm at.

Calm Energy And Being Invisible

SPEAKER_00 20:16

For sure. My next one, um, being a good florist for me is like being able to hustle and get things done without having chaotic energy. I am like really big on this. Yes. We are going to be moving quickly, but we're gonna be calm. We're not freaking out, we're not yelling, we're not like, oh, where did this go? We have to get this done. You know, it's like we're chill, like it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

I I put this one for kind of freelancing in a sense, but I put mine, I put being invisible, which sounds really bad. But like for me as a florist, like I am not the main character. I am not the main character, and to that extent, no vendor should be drawing enough attention to themselves that it's about them. Like, as every time I tell my freelance team, and so of course this goes with being a freelancer, like, I do not want us to stand out in any way, so conversations need to be quiet. I'm happy for you guys to chat as you're getting things done productively, but I don't want conversations to be loud. I don't want you to really be like talking to other like guests or whoever. Like, I think like I just want to be in the background of this day. I don't want to be drawing attention to myself um in the whole aspect. Like, I don't want, you know, their bouquet reveal to necessarily be all about me because sometimes, sometimes I'm like, oh, they want this energy, they they want that. And sometimes I can kind of tell, like, hey, this isn't their like the florals aren't their biggest priority. And like me coming into the room and doing a whole bouquet reveal, which I've done, I'm like, oh, this isn't the time. Like, this isn't the client for that. Where others, I'm like, oh, this this is their vibe, it's high energy, it's like every little thing. Is huge. So I just think it's kind of like reading the room and being invisible a little bit. Like, don't make it about you. Like it's it's just not about you. Like, don't be expecting certain shots from a photographer. Like, if something's important for you content-wise, like, and and to that extent, like if if you can snag your own behind the scenes, like absolutely do it. But if it's gonna be distracting, if you are getting in the way of like the flow, like it's just better to not. I just think it's better to like know how to read a room and and don't make the focus be on you.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Agreed. Okay, and then my last one, um, it like kind of sounds weird, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and it's like having a level of detachment. So there are so many times when things go wrong. My dad always says something is going to go wrong. Like, something is going to go wrong. It's just a matter of like how you deal with it. And I just think like you're so excited about the Hanoi Rununculus, and then oh, guess what? You don't get any of it, it's not coming. Or you're like stoked to do the art. Guess what? It's so crazy windy, you have to pivot and do something else. Like, I and I feel like you just kind of have to be like, cool, sounds good, like great. Like when we were in Montana, and I got a phone call that the flowers weren't gonna be delivered that afternoon, they weren't gonna be delivered the next morning, they were gonna be delivered like two days late.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

And I was just like, You need to to you need to context. This isn't just flowers for a wedding, this is like how much in florals did you spend? Like over $10,000. $10,000 in flowers. Yeah. So like a large quantity, a large quantity. And she's not just like a box or two.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

She calls me, she's like, I have some bad news. And I was like, okay, what is it? And she's like, uh, the flowers aren't getting on the 2 p.m. flight today, and I can't get them until the day after tomorrow. And my response was, damn. Okay, it's fine. And she said, Well, it's not, and I was like, Well, yeah, but can you?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

But like, what is you being pissed or you know, because like you get a tutor out for it.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

But like, but like it's she has no control over it. It's not gonna change it, you know? Okay, I'm just kind of rolling with it. Like, how are we gonna make it work? And I I just feel like you can't fall too in love with, and maybe that sounds sad, like that sounds like you can't be excited about things. You can, but it's just knowing that if one thing isn't I think you just don't put your whole soul in like you know into any one ride. Yeah, and like you just know that like no matter what, it's gonna be beautiful. And I I kind of like tell myself too at the end of the day, it is just flowers, and this event isn't going to like fall apart because I don't have my Hanois.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

No, literally, like zoom out, it's the tablescape, you know, or like they have an arch. Do they even know like how many different varieties of Lyzianthas you have? Like, it's just not that deep. And I do find myself catching myself when I get so frustrated because something didn't make it, and I'm just like, it doesn't the colors are represented, it's just not that deep.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I kind of have to do that to myself sometimes when I really, really want to buy expensive product. I sometimes it's worth it. I will say, sometimes it's worth it, and like, yeah, make something you think is beautiful, and if it's for you, that's totally fine. But other times I'm like, I have to keep my profits in mind, and I will be looking at you know, a $50 bunch of 10 stems, and I have to like talk myself out of it. Yeah, the bride literally will not notice she will not care. Like, self, do not buy those, like literally, they're not gonna care. Keep your profit, you know. Like, I I feel like I have to talk myself out of going the extra that again. That sounds like bad, but it's like we can't be pouring our entire heart and soul into every single detail. Like, we gotta pick and choose.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yeah, like as a whole, as long as it's going to look lush and beautiful and and filled with blooms, like it's you've you've met the mark.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Like that's and I kind of feel like this goes into what we were saying earlier about like not having chaotic energy. Like, imagine if it's on somebody's event day and like something went wrong and you're like walking around with like a chicken with her head cut off. Like, that's that's that's not professional, and that's not going to make people trust you as your florist. Like, you want to be like, oh yeah, like this is

Detachment When Things Go Wrong

SPEAKER_00 26:43

okay, like we've got this figured out. Don't you even worry about it for sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Um, okay, my last one specific to floristry. I feel like it'll be a good segue into freelancers. Um, is being well educated, knowing the names, knowing the seasons of blooms. Um, I it's so much easier said than done. Like this is coming from someone like I've been doing this for seven years. Like I've been learning the names of flowers for years. But trends come and go, like certain varieties are new. Like there are like I swear, endless possibilities of flowers. And and you know, every country has like different specialty things that they're growing. Like there's those um those new campanula. I knew you were gonna bring that up. You've loved it. And it's just like, I'm like, they're so amazing, but like it's just you wouldn't know unless you're following the right people or you know, you are actively seeking out new varieties of things. Um, and I think that that's what makes you a good florist is being able to make recommendations to your client, um, whether they're requesting something that's not in season, and you need to be able to kind of jump in and think, well, I have a different, you know, idea that might be something up your alley that's really similar. And also because, like we've discussed at this point, things um rarely your order that you've placed is the order that you receive. So you need to be able to think quickly on substitutes and what's going to be a good like bang for buck as well. Like, hey, my I don't have much budget left. What's a good ground coverage? Well, palms are five dollars a bunch. That's you know, something easy to cover, you know, in bases, or this greenery is gonna be good for this. Um, and again, easier said than done. It takes a long time to learn that. I have a team of interns, and I always feel like almost sad for them in a sense, because I can tell, like, you know, they have so many questions, they're asking the right questions, and unfortunately, sometimes the answer is like it's just gonna take time. Yeah, it's just gonna take you some time to learn all the prices and names and just know them off the top of your head. But once you get there, it really helps you be a good florist because that's your job is being entrusted with these florals. If someone's saying, Hey, you know, I love blue and white, but I want it to feel a little bit more like organic and wild, your ingredient list is going to be vastly different from someone who says, I want it to feel sophisticated and elegant and a little more timeless, like your bloom board will look vastly different, and it could take you five minutes or probably 50 minutes, depending on how well you know what to type in to get those images. If you're like, Well, I don't know what these are called. Luckily for you, AI and reverse image search like are all a thing and very good at what they do now. But it takes a lot of time, and I I think that'll segue us into as a freelancer.

Flower Knowledge And Smart Substitutes

SPEAKER_01 29:33

It really helps you be a good freelancer when you also know what the flowers are called. Um, I'm always more than willing to teach someone, you know, hey, here's this is what these are called, this is what these are called, but it makes you a great freelancer if I can tell you the name and the flower and you can go and grab it for me and bring it over to me. Um, that's always very helpful for me. Um, and I do think that does help you gauge, like if you are an experienced freelancer. If you don't really need to be told what something is called, then you are experienced. If you don't know what half of the the names are, I would say you are probably still like at intermediate level. If you don't know any of the floral names, you are a neo florist. And that might be a good that might be a good characteristic on on what your rate should be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

So what do you what do we think about rates?

Freelancer Rates Utah Vs California

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Where are they at right now? Yeah. It's kind of different for you and for me.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

It's very different for us both. So definitely prefacing that's I'll go first for Utah. And and I'm also gonna open this up as a this is kind of a gray area. I think some florists and myself have talked about maybe having a little bit of a conversation with the floral community here in Utah. Um, when I started, this is real life. When I started in 20, it was technically 2020. So granted, it's been six years. Yes, inflation has happened. I know that. Um, I was charging 15 an hour for myself. Um, and other people were also charging 15 an hour, and we were doing our own weddings. I mean, experienced enough that we are fully doing our own weddings. We weren't just freelancers. Um, and I started charging 30 an hour for myself just this last year, like the end of last season, and part of that went into I have child care that I have to consider, and I could do an entire wedding without being told any amount of information. So I'm feeling like I'm pretty experienced. Somehow in there, there's been like a jump in this younger, newer generation of florists, which is great, which sounds stupid because I'm like, I'm not even that much older, but like somewhere in their early 20s, some of these girls are pretty new, like their businesses are just getting off the ground, and they're also charging 30 an hour. And I'm kind of confused. Yeah. I'm like, I'm sorry, but you're not worth $30. Like, I could have a neighbor girl come and do the work that you're capable of doing right now. And I feel really bad because I'm like, I am totally an advocate for paying someone what they're valued at, and like everyone deserves that. But I'm like, let's start at 20, 22, and show me what you can do. But if I'm having to redo your work, recheck your work, kind of hover over your shoulder, I don't think you're worth 30 an hour. And I just think you're not there yet. And so I think there needs to be something in between. So, what I would tell my my interns, I always try to give them a little bit of like a guide as they finish their internship. I'm like, go book freelance gigs, go build your network, go learn some more. I think freelancing is the best way to learn, which is also why I'll say I think it's fair to be paying a freelancer less if they're benefiting from freelancing for you. If they're learning loads and loads about mechanics and certain venues and blooms, like that's education. And I do think that that's worth something. So I always tell my freelancers minimum is $20 for floral experience. If you're someone who's coming to clean my buckets, I'm probably charging $15 to $20. Like if you're just a random neighborhood kid or whatever, I'm like, this is like $15 to $20. This isn't gonna even take you very long. Um, $20 is like the the minimum, I'd say, for a freelancer. And that's probably the groundwork side. Okay, you know nothing about florals, but you're willing to sweep the floor, you are willing to fill up buckets, you can chop stems, you can do some basic processing. 25 is where I feel like it's like, okay, I'm pretty confident as a designer. I might need a little bit of critiquing, a little bit of like direction giving, um, still learning some floral names. I'm not taking full weddings on my own, but I'm feeling like I'm almost there. And then I feel like 30 is like, I'm 100% like you can drop me into any scenario, and I'm 100% good. That's how I feel in Utah currently, and maybe someone's gonna come and flame me in the DMs, and that's totally fine. I'm like, if I'm out of touch, tell me. But from what I've talked to of my little floral friends and I, there's probably a good eight of us who've been in this for a while. I feel like that's a little more what you could expect. Now, you tell us on the California side, because it's a different game. Also, I'm gonna hold on back up. Most of us Utah girls are also feeding our freelancers, we're also taking dedicated breaks where we're chit-chatting, like the vibes are good. And I do feel like we've made that distinction from Utah versus California. Like, you're also being taken care of, like, pretty well. So I'm like, really? 30 an hour to like I I'll be that girl, like to play with flowers and get free lunch. Like, I don't know. I don't know. Okay, okay, now go. Yeah, because it is not like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

It's not like that here. Man, if if I was given lunch, what would that be like? No, it's fine, literally, or a bathroom break. I know, and yeah, it's very much like it's very hustly here. Um you're not paying because you're not drinking, like it's like you're busy, busy. And I've tried to be better at just like taking care of myself and trying like to not care how it's being perceived. Cause I just I never want anybody to think like I'm dilly-dallying or I'm slow or whatever. And so that was kind of hard when I first got here and was like, oh, like I gotta work hard. Like, I just remember this one day. I'd it was a 12-hour day, and I didn't know it was gonna be like that. Like, I was expecting it to be like what it is in Utah, where it's like four hours and you're done, you know? Like you go on site, you do it, and you're done. It was 12 hours, and I think I did over 20,000 steps, and I didn't have food with me, and it was so hot, and I was up and down from a ladder, and I kept thinking, like, just don't pass out when you're on top of the ladder. Just don't pass out. And this is why you have to take care of yourself because uh the florist doesn't want you to fall off of a ladder and she's liable. Like that would be really crappy for her in her event. That's kind of on me. Like, I need to take better care of myself, even if you feel like this pressure to like perform, perform. It's like, okay, well, I also need to make sure that I'm taking care of myself so that I can perform. And I feel like that's part of my um one of my things is like take care of yourself. And that kind of goes with like not making the day about you. Because if I'm not taking care of myself and I'm just talking about like, oh my god, I'm like so tired, like oh my god, I'm gonna pass off. It's so hot, it's so hot. You so it's not helpful, anyways. It is a different game here. I'm charging 35 an hour and upping, I think, to 38 in the next few months. I feel like the lowest I've ever paid anybody here is 25, and that's for like very beginner, yeah. They don't know things. Um the norm that I'm paying people is around 35 to 40, but I don't necessarily think it should be that high, and maybe I just need to like get with it and be okay with it. It does like it's kind of hard when I hire somebody who's 40, $45 an hour and they're not worth it. Yeah. So I don't know. It is a really big range here, I feel like, anywhere between 25 and 45. The most I've ever paid a freelancer is 50. But I would say that the florists like me, where we have our own businesses, I actually feel like we charge less than the girls that like only do freelancing. Because there's a lot of people here that only do freelancing, and I feel like they're more expensive and they don't know as much. So it's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Yeah, I feel like there's definitely, I mean, we're really writing our own rules when it comes to floristry and home-based floristry specifically, because it's not like you are signing, like, you know, a W-2 and a set wage and all of that stuff, um, which is great, right? Because you have the flexibility. If you're like, wow, that was a horrible experience freelancing. I'm definitely gonna charge more for my time for that person specifically. And that's acceptable as well. If you know that the date is going to be brutal and it's going to be, you know, physically exhausting. I think it's fair to be like, I yeah, I'm charging 40 for this event. Um, I've heard that florists in Arizona will charge more during like heat peak season because of weather where they're like, it's gonna be really bad weather, like I'm charging more. And you're like, you know what? Fair. Like that's fair. So I do think there's like a lot of wiggle room. And we said this before our call started, but when I was saying, like, you know, 25 for someone who's, you know, pretty solid, but you know, not maybe calling all the own shots in their own business and maybe still like learning a bit. Um, that like obviously there's still five numbers in between there. I guess technically four, right? Like you could start 26, 27, 28, 29, and then charge 30. Where for some reason I feel like girls here in Utah are just jumping by five. They're like, it's 20, it's 25, or it's 30. And you're like, okay, like, but but like we could work our way, yeah, you know, through there. So um, I feel like we should give each of our bad floor bad freelancer stories.

Bad Freelancer Behavior And Towel Gate

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Um, and this will really paint the picture on things to not do as a freelancer and really set the like, oh, okay, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Do you want to do the honors first?

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yes, I will. Right before I go into that, I do want to say we've talked a little bit about like um when you're like newer uh and like kind of learning things on the job. I will say one of the things that makes you a bad freelancer is when you're using the opportunity exclusively as a learning opportunity. Yeah, if it it's not a mentorship. Please do not pester me with questions during our like session together. Like I'm paying you to be here. So when you're like, where did you get these flowers? Where do you get your other flowers? How do you order like this? How much is this? How do you do this?

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Would it like yeah, like book a mentor session? Book a mentor session. I think a question here there that's relevant to the design work, like you know, where's the venue? Have you worked there before? You know, like make it relevant. But yeah, if you're asking me how I priced the event and I always feel a little like I want to be transparent, but I I do especially like, how did you build this recipe? I'm like, okay, okay, like I don't have time for this. But like I'll tell you what I charge per centerpiece, sure, but I'm not gonna give you a breakdown at this time.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah, I'm sorry. But it makes me feel icky if like we're on site and they're like, so how much was this wedding?

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Yes. Please ask the right questions at the right time. I always say, do not talk about this client in any manner. Like, you could say, This looks beautiful, this is great, like great, but don't ask me how they found me. Like, I just don't go there.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

And that kind of goes into being a good freelancer when you talked earlier about being invisible and you know, not not even like talking too loud. Don't talk crap at the event about anybody, anyone, anybody or anything because you don't know who's listening, you don't know what parts of the conversation they're gonna pick up on or over here. And people wanna keep it positive.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

People are very sensitive to thinking people talk about them. And I catch myself doing it all the time. So if they hear someone even whispering and they're like, Yeah, and then she like was being so rude, like they would totally be like, Oh my gosh, are they talking about me? Like, are they talking about and you would never want that to you know happen, even if it's totally innocent, it's just like pick the right topics. You're an adult, you can do it. I believe in you.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Okay, I'm ready now to dive into my story, which totally goes with like not making the day about you. I think when you're freelancing, the florist is like the queen, and it's your job to take care of her. You're checking in with her, you're like, Hey, can I get you water? Like, what, like, how can I help you? If I ever see like the head florist sweeping, I grab the broom from her. Like, I'm like, she's got bigger problems. Yes, and I like very mindful that like she's put her heart and soul into this, she's tired, she's been working all week, you know. Like, this this isn't about me as the freelancer. And I had this girl who was $45 an hour. And um that's kind of like this. Is the hard thing with freelancers too? It's like she's telling me her rate, and yeah, I just have to say yes and pay it, even though I don't know how she's gonna work. Like I can't, I can't hire her and then say, well, you weren't worth that. I'm not gonna pay that. Like that's not how it works. So it's kind of tricky. Um, and I was desperate because I had two freelancers be two freelancers back out the morning of the event. And so I just needed somebody. And so she was like, I'm available, I'm 45 an hour. And normally I'm not gonna hire somebody who's $45 an hour unless I really like know I can trust them.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

I I've also said this too. I'm just gonna cut in that like it's totally appropriate to pay someone maybe a little bit less for their first gig, and then they kind of prove themselves, and then you're like, Okay, yeah, I'll pay you more. Like, I think that's totally normal too, in my experience.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Yeah, if you're upfront about it in the beginning, yeah. Yeah. Um, so I was like, Yep, great, sounds good. Like the event was in a few hours, and it was supposed to rain. I sent out an email to everybody on the way in. Um, and I said, Hey, it's raining. Um, get a jacket, get an umbrella. If it's not black, it's totally fine. Like, do what you gotta do. And then in the email, I was like, but you know, at the end of the day, like we are gonna get wet, but we're florists, we're gonna do the job, it's gonna be beautiful, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Mind you, and people are adults, you can also look at the check the weather.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

And you should. Okay, because you are a independent contractor, this is your job, so treat it like it's your job. And not your mom. So we get there and we're in the rain. We're outside designing and she just she was like, Well, I wish I would have known it was gonna rain. I could have worn a rain jacket. And I was like, sorry, like not my thought, you don't read your email. And um, I had asked her to secure a uh foam brick like to the top of the arch and she just flat out told me no. She was like, I have been in this industry for 10 years. That's not gonna go up there. It's just too waterlogged because of the rain. It's just not gonna work. And I was like, uh, okay, I want you to try anyway. And she was like, Okay, and she like gets up on the ladder, I go do something else, I come back. It's been like 10 minutes, she's still up there. And she was like, I checked in with her, I was like, Okay, how's it going? You know, and she was like, Yeah, like I'm telling you, like it's just not, it's just not gonna happen. And I said, Okay, get down. And she got down and I grabbed it from her and I got up there and I zip tied it to the thing in 30 seconds, and I got down. And she was like, Oh, wow. I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

You're like, sorry is the word you're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

So this event was on the balcony of the presidential suite um of a hotel, and the couple was going to be staying in that suite that night. So it was gonna, you know, proposal on the balcony, then they were gonna leave and go to dinner, and we were gonna clean it all up while they were at dinner, and then they would come back and sleep there that night. And she kind of disappears at one point, and I have a team downstairs that's continuing to like load stuff in with Christian, and I'm upstairs with the team designing. And um, so she cut I kind of was like, Oh, maybe she's doing the stairs thing. I don't know. And she comes back out with a towel wrapped around her head. A towel that she got from their bathroom. She walked in there with her wet shoes, got one of their towels, wrapped it around her, and she said, There's no use in me getting wet. And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_01 46:19

But also, you're gonna get dry for five seconds and come back out here and get wet?

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Like, yes, and anytime she could, she was like standing inside the hotel suite, just like watching everybody. And I continue, I kept having to say, Hey, if you're done with your job, do this. If you're done with your job, do this. Okay, like that's I kept another like you should I wrote that down.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Stop asking what you should do next. You need to learn how to anticipate.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Well, and finish what you were doing too. Like, I feel like so often I'm like, Did you finish that thing? And it's like, oh well no, and like Yeah, don't be standing around taking a break. Sorry, not the time. Uh yes, no, and like there's a difference too with like again, like taking care of yourself, like having a drink of water, to just like kind of standing around, just like watching people, like looking like you don't know what you're doing. Yeah. The amount of times that I tell people, like, okay, what we're doing right now is covering foam with foliage, and then they like half ass it, and then they're just kind of standing around, and I'm like, okay, is it done? And it's like, no, it's not done yet. I'm like, okay, well, why are we like, or they'll just like start grabbing flowers and like placing flowers in, and I'm like, the foam isn't covered. We are covering foam right now. So how did it end with towel towel gate? I called Christian right in front of her and I said, I need you to send up this person and this person. I'm sending towel girl down to you because and I I didn't even care. She was right there. I need the designers down there. I cannot do this up here with who I'm working with right now. So she's gonna come down and help you unload. I mean, I said, I need you to go down and help Christian. I like hung up the phone. I said, I need you to go down and help Christian. And she was like, Well, do you want me to finish what I'm working on? And I said, Nope.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

No, take you and your wet towel away from me. Oh, it was so, so awful. Yeah, so she didn't get she will never get the invite back, ladies. Um, okay, minor, not that juicy, but just some things that are like a quick tell for me on don't do that, and you will be asked to come

Reliability Attitude And Self Care

SPEAKER_01 48:23

back again. And if you do these things, you won't be back. Um, I've had a I do interns, which we'll dive into on a later date. But um, these girls are unpaid, to be fair, they are unpaid because they are coming with little to no education. I do give them lots of education, like training days, bouquet one-on-ones. So the trade-off is that they obviously get all that education for free and they work for me for free for a set amount of hours. I think our max is like 15 a week, and that's when we have events. Um, so I had a girl last year, and it was one of those I ignored my gut and was like, oh, but like I think she'll be great. She wasn't. She would often, I started noticing pretty early on that like anytime we were loading stuff, like I'm in a basement studio, so we'll walk up the stairs to like load the fridge and the cooler, and she was always just in the bathroom. I'd be like, hey, everybody, like let's go up to load, and she'd be in the bathroom for the entirety of the load and then suddenly be available. Um, so that was really annoying to me because I was like, Do you think I don't notice that you are conveniently never here when we're doing the loading? Um, she also was the worst at commitment. Um, this was a conversation topic at my freelancing gig this last weekend, um, specifically about other people's interns. Um, I don't know how to say this without sounding like a total wench, or like, am I, I don't know, am I just that am I my grandma now? This current young generation, again, like 20s, and and they're like, sorry, I have cramps, I can't come. And I'm like, and it's a regular occurrence. I'm like, go see a doctor or pop some pills and keep going. Like it happens often that some girls are just like, I or I hear migraine a lot, and I'm like, okay, if you have migraine, is it really a migraine? Yeah, I'm like, is it a migraine? Like, it's I and it's hard because you're like, I don't want to like call someone out, but like you need to learn how to like function. You can't just be calling out of your job all the time because you have period cramps. Like, seriously, if it's really that bad, you should be seeing a doctor for it. And if not, like find some remedies and continue on. Like, I'm not, and and it's like the frequency of like, I shouldn't need to know what your damn menstrual cycle is to be like, wait a minute, weren't you just like I'm like, this isn't tracking right? Like, this doesn't add up. So we were just saying, like, what is with this, like, kind of, I don't know, just like, yeah, sorry, like I'm just not feeling good and bailing. Yeah, so she would do kind of the like, sorry, like I'm I'm running late, and then it'd be like two hours later. And I'm like, running late to me is like 20, 30 minutes max.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

If you're too late, running late to me is like four minutes late. I'll be stressed.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

I'll be a little late. I'm like, okay, sure. A few minutes.

unknown 51:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Hours is just insane. Insane. If you can't be someone that a florist can rely on, it's just like you're never gonna book jobs with me. Because, like, yeah, because who's whose butt is on the line? It's me. If you don't show up, you're screwing me and the whole team over to distribute that workload for them, and that like really, really sucks. Yeah. Um, I want to finish this out before before we go. I think the last one is just kind of tying into my kind of learn how to tough it out and be a big girl. Is you know, take care of yourself. If you know that you get hungry, if you know that you get thirsty, like prepare to take care of yourself. You should not be expecting people to anticipate your needs because your job is to help them. They're not supposed to be like worried about you. Obviously, it's so lovely when that's the case that someone is looking out for you. But this job is very labor-intensive. Please do not come and then be complaining that you're standing, that you're so exhausted, that it's just been the longest day ever.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

Like then it's it comes off very pick-me, and it's really really just like when you compare that to the head florist again, yeah. Who's been feeling the stress? Oh, yes, and feeling all the stress, carrying the weight of this event, and has been. The whole week, the whole week. She is tired, and it's just you look really dumb when you're like, I am just really tired. Okay, this last week um I was working with a great, great team. It was a huge event, and um, there was this girl, her name was Tanika. She was so nice, and I just noticed she was working so hard, and I just said, like, Tanika, and she was like, Yeah, and I was like, You are a really hard worker. And she said, I've been in the industry for 10 years, and I think if you're not a hard worker, you should get out. And I just love it, queen.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Yeah, you're lifting, you are sweaty, yeah, you are standing, it's not glamorous. We've said it before, and I just think you need to have that mentality of like this is this is blue collar, like this is not this is not a luxury dream. And if that's what you're looking for, go be a different vendor that's kind of just chilling, and or maybe don't be a wedding vendor because weddings are high stress, high intensity. Like, you gotta just keep quiet. And I think if you have a bad attitude as a freelancer or a florist, it's just it's gonna bring down the whole team, and it really affects the whole morale and vibe. And like a florist does not want to bring you on again. I've had that before where I'm like, this girl worked great, but her attitude was just not one that I can can mesh with, and I just won't be asking them back. And and it sucks because they're like, when can I come back? When can I come back? And I'm like, listen, that was just really negative for me. Like, I'm all about a good story, but like I can't have constant doom gloom, all of that jazz.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

So I have had many freelancers that um have a very positive vibe, and I will kind of say to wrap this all up, like it's physical labor and it's hard, but like there are just some magical moments that you get to experience. I love when you're setting up and the wedding band starts rehearsing. I love when um everything is coming together and like it's just you're just like a bunch of girls squealing over like how pretty it all is. Like it is really, it is really magical. Um, and I do love those moments.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

It's hard work that pays off, and I just think it's important to have the right expectations as you go in, whether you're a florist or a freelancer on what it's gonna be like. Um, there's gonna be some really hard days, and then you will get to event day and see the fruits of your labor and you know be like, yes, this is why I do this. Um, it's not for the the faint of heart, and yeah, we love like we want to be tough girls. Like, I just think like, yeah, own it. This is not easy, and you're one of the few that can do it and do it exceptionally.

Listener DMs And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_01 55:30

So, um, if you guys have any horror stories as a freelancer or a florist or anything that you loved about this episode, please send us a DM at the Lunch Club Podcast on Instagram. We love to get to see what your guys' um input or outlooks are from the episode, and we love getting to hear all your little feedback. We are so excited that you were here with us today, and we can't wait for next week. So stay tuned and thanks for coming to sit with us. Bye.